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BRUCE COCKBURN > Interviews

Canadian Singer-Songwriter Still ‘On A Roll’ after 50 Years Of Making Music

By Phil Kloer – Atlanta Journal-Constitution

6 June 2023 – Bruce Cockburn, the Canadian singer-songwriter who has known decades of success and accolades without ever quite becoming a household name, is 78 years old and on a roll. Just ask him.

In “On a Roll,” the opening track on his new album “O Sun O Moon,” Cockburn (pronounced CO Burn), sings “Time takes its toll/ but in my mind/ I’m on a roll.”

“There are issues that didn’t used to be there. Arthritic fingers take a little more babying and fussing with to get them to work than used to be the case,” he explains, regarding the “time takes its toll” lyric.

“I don’t have the energy I had when I was younger, there’s no doubt about it.

“And yet I feel like I have a better understanding of my relationship with God,” he continues, on a roll as it were. “I also feel like everything is lighter. There are real things to worry about in the world. But the way in which we concern ourselves changes over time. The things that used to be a great source of stress now are more like shaking your head and saying ‘Well, there you go.’”

Cockburn launched his musical career in 1970, and of his more than 30 albums, 22 are Canadian gold or platinum. A member of the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, he is best known for his songs “Wondering Where the Lions Are” (1979) and “If I Had a Rocket Launcher” (1984). His music flits from folk to pop to jazz to indigenous influences, and his lyrics range from love songs to Christian allegories to impassioned songs about political prisoners and climate change.

Cockburn’s current tour, in which he plays solo without a backup band, brings him and opener Dar Williams (another singer-songwriter, herself frequently a headliner at mid-sized venues) to Variety Playhouse June 18. Cockburn’s scheduled 2020 Atlanta concert was scrapped because of the pandemic, so the last time he played here was 2018.

Asked in a recent telephone interview why he is touring solo this time, he chuckles and chooses honesty. “I get to take home more of the money,” he says. “That’s not the only reason for doing it this way, but it counts.

“The solo experience tends to be a little bit more emotional for me,” he elaborates. “There is an exchange of personal energy between all of us in the room.”

In his eighth decade, his lyrics are pared down, but with plenty of wisdom embedded. “What will go wrong will go wrong/ What will go right will go right/ Push come to shove/ It’s all about love,” he writes in a love song to his wife, M.J.

“Orders,” one of the stronger new songs, is a take on the Golden Rule in which he lists all the people he is ordered by God to love, no matter how hard it is, including “the one we think we’re better than.”

“It took a lot of time to write that one. I don’t remember what triggered the idea. I wrote pages and pages and pages listing all the possible people we have to bite the bullet and love. Then it was whittling it down to a manageable size.”

But the biggest recurring theme is mortality.

“The whole album’s about death pretty much,” he says. “But I even feel lighter about that. Not about tragedy or pain or people dying when they shouldn’t. That’s all real and not something you can take lightly. It’s tragic when it’s a school shooting, but when its someone who has had a full life. … You have a life; you have to leave it at some point.”

He says he is comfortable pondering his own mortality. “When the moment comes, I’m probably going to be panic stricken like everyone else.” Again with the chuckle.

“But contemplating it from where I’m currently looking, it’s not that scary. It’s gonna be what it is. I have some concerns about what I’m going to encounter afterward. It could be what I imagine, or it could be nothing. But as that horizon gets closer, it just feels natural.

“My relationship with the divine is front and center in my life,” he continues. My fear, if there is a fear, is that I will come face to face with God and not recognize Him.” He drops another chuckle into the conversation. “I hope to get past that.”

Posted: June 6, 2023
Credit: Atlanta Journal-Constitution & brucecockburn.org

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Bruce Cockburn Q’s Tom Power interview – To Keep The World We Know

June 7
Bruce Cockburn on releasing his 38th album
The Canadian singer-songwriter also tells the story behind his song To Keep The World We Know.

Three things are certain in life: death, taxes and a new Bruce Cockburn record. Believe it or not, the singer-songwriter has just released his 38th studio album, O Sun O Moon. He joined Q’s Tom Power to talk about the album and introduce us to one of its songs, titled To Keep The World We Know.

LISTEN

Bruce’s translation of Aglukark’s chorus:

This is one world, one chance
It’s the only world we have
Here it is. This is it – one world
It’s the only world we have

[Source: Bruce on CBC Radio’s q Bruce Cockburn on releasing his 38th album | CBC Arts – Transcribed by Mark Dunn]

Interview with Bruce Cockburn produced by Mitch Pollock


Bruce Cockburn feat. Susan Aglukark – To Keep the World We Know (Lyric Video)


Bruce Cockburn’s New Album, O Sun O Moon, Takes Listeners on a Hopeful, Honest Quest

By Steven Rosen – citybeat.com

31 May 2023 – Over the course of his 53-year career as a solo recording artist, Bruce Cockburn has won admiration for the finely crafted imagery and poetically descriptive details of his personal and political songs, the subtly emotional quality of his vocals and the virtuosity of his guitar playing. He’ll be making a comparatively rare Cincinnati appearance at Ludlow Garage on June 16; Dar Williams is opening the show.

Bruce Cockburn 2022

Granted, his fame is greater in his native Canada than in the U.S. There, he’s regarded on equal footing with fellow Canadians Leonard Cohen and Gordon Lightfoot as a major singer-songwriter. (Cockburn has lived in San Francisco since 2009). But he has had an appreciative U.S. following ever since he scored a hit single in 1979 with the gently catchy “Wondering Where the Lions Are.” It may be, he has said, the only top 40 song ever to contain the word “petroglyphs.”

His other songs — particularly “Lovers in a Dangerous Time,” “If I Had a Rocket Launcher,” “Pacing the Cage” and “Waiting for a Miracle” — have become recognized here through either album rock airplay of his own versions or covers by such artists as Jerry Garcia, Shawn Colvin, Barenaked Ladies, Judy Collins and more. Though written earlier, “Lovers in a Dangerous Time” and “Pacing the Cage” drew increased attention during the worst of the pandemic.

It really is a distinguished, accomplished career in retrospect. But at age 78, he’s not looking backward. On his new record, O Sun O Moon, his 38th studio album, he begins with a bluesy, soulful rocker built around this memorable refrain: “Time takes its toll/But in my soul/I’m on a roll.”

It seems a pretty upbeat notion, driven along by a hot electric guitar solo by Colin Linden, who also produced the record. So CityBeat’s first question to Cockburn during a phone interview is if the song is meant as a motivational statement for the audience that has aged along with him.

At first, he laughs, then addresses the inquiry with the kind of serious introspection that has been a constant in his career. “I think I’m talking to myself as much as to you,” he says. “But that’s all right if they (his audience) think that. We all hope people will pay attention to the album.”

“On a Roll” is a good example of how his songs can make you think and, for that matter, how much thought goes into the songwriting. Positive as that refrain seems, the verses aren’t morale boosters. An example: “Howl of anger, howl of grief/here comes the heat with no relief/social behavior/beyond belief/throw those punches, drop that ball/commit to nothing, excuse it all/here comes the future/here comes the fall.”

The song’s seeming positivity relates to Cockburn’s searching, questioning, non-violent view of Christianity, to which he’s long been devoted. “Looking around the world, it’s in a mess and that’s nothing new,” he explains. “In the Trump era in America and then post-Trump, the notion of bad manners sort of vanished, along with the notion of good manners. So there’s a reference to that and all these other things going on — this external chaos.

“But inside, well, I’m getting older — that’s time taking its toll,” Cockburn continues. “But at the same time, I feel like I’m getting closer to the relationship with the divine that I want and hope for. I can’t really define that relationship very well for you, but that’s been a theme of mine from the get-go, so it’s a hopeful statement on a personal level in spite of all the crap going on around us.

“It’s probably not for everybody, but I don’t think I’m alone on this,” he explains about his religious belief. “As the horizon approaches, you start thinking about what’s on the other side. I don’t want to meet God and not recognize him. That matters to me. That’s the driving principle behind my ongoing efforts to get that relationship in good shape.”

(Cockburn expresses those thoughts even more directly on the new album’s strong closing song, “When You Arrive”).

Born in Ottawa, he took an early interest in music, especially jazz, and went on to study composition at Boston’s Berklee School of Music in the mid-1960s before dropping out. He then found his way into rock and folk.

As his career and following developed, so, too, did his concern with war and economic inequities. One of his most memorable and controversial songs, 1984’s “If I Had a Rocket Launcher,” came about after Cockburn visited a Mexican refugee camp for Guatemalans fleeing the brutality of their country’s military government.

The song shocked fans who regarded Cockburn as firmly non-violent; others saw it as a rallying call to arms against government-sponsored violence.

It’s a song Cockburn still finds a need to explain today — it’s about him being glad he didn’t have a rocket launcher handy. “The word ‘if’ gets overlooked a lot when people think about that song,” he says. “One of the things I was trying to say is that the enemy — in this case, the Guatemalan military — was inflicting horrendous abuses on its own citizens and forfeiting any claim to humanity by their actions. I was outraged by those things, and my outrage was motivating the song. I don’t think it was an appropriate response really, but I wanted to share with my peers how easy it is to get into that state of mind.”

When Cockburn includes the word “love” in his songs — and he does so on four different O Sun O Moon tracks — he doesn’t do it casually or as a songwriting cliché. His vision of love somewhat parallels his vision of beauty in life. On one of the new album’s loveliest ballads, the quietly hymnic “Us All,” he sings, “I pray we not fear to love/I pray we be free of judgment and shame/Open the vein/let kindness rain/rein/O’er us all.”

“Every now and then, something in your life triggers this sense of being part of the human picture — that feeling to me is love,” Cockburn explains. “When I think about what love is, it’s the glue that holds the universe together, or at least it allows us to tap into our sense of belonging in the universe.

“The love that we can share with other people is a manifestation of that. It’s kind of love at the local level, you might say.”

Bruce Cockburn plays Ludlow Garage at 8:30 p.m. June 16. Info: ludlowgaragecincinnati.com.

~from www.citybeat.com.


A Breath Of Fresh Air – podcast interview with Sandy Kaye

18 May 2023

BRUCE COCKBURN: Canada’s Revered Singer-Songwriter And Activist – A Journey Through His Soulful Lyrics & Life Reflections

A Breath of Fresh Air podcast Sandy Kaye with Bruce Cockburn

My special guest today is the remarkable BRUCE COCKBURN a celebrated Canadian singer-songwriter and virtuoso guitarist whose music has been enthralling listeners for more than half a century. Bruce’s work is characterized by its profound exploration of spirituality, love and nature offering a thoughtful perspective on the world around us. His songs are celebrated for their eloquent lyrics and enchanting melodies which are deeply rooted in his personal journey and experiences. From his early days as a folk-rock artist in the 60s to his current endeavours Bruce continues to inspire and captivate audiences with his timeless music.

LISTEN to the 52 minute podcast

The key moments in this episode are
00 00 02 – Introduction
00 03 21 – Bruce Cockburn’s Music Career
00 07 10 – Political Songwriting
00 11 09 – Pursuing Music Passion
00 14 42 – Songwriting Process
00 19 20 – Bruce’s Journey to Christianity
00 24 25 – Wondering Where the Lions Are
00 33 10 – Changes in Bruce’s Music
00 36 40 – Bruce’s Interest in Aid Organisations
00 38 12 – The Beneficiary of the System
00 44 20 – Canadian Music Hall of Fame
00 45 50 – Rarities Album
00 48 06 – The Frontman
00 50 49 – Bruce’s Career summarised

I hope you enjoy my chat with this incredible musician and amazing human.

abreathoffreshair.com.au/episodes/bruce-cockburn/

Credit: Sandy Kaye
https://abreathoffreshair.com.au/


Bruce Cockburn – Reflections on Gord & New album ‘O Sun O Moon’ – Mulligan Stew

by Mulligan Stew Podcast – Terry David Mulligan

Mulligan Stew EP 254 - Bruce Cockburn

7 May 2023 – The Stew is with Bruce Cockburn..bringing stories of his 38th album O Sun O Moon. Plus memories of Gordon Lightfoot and his place in the music of the World and especially Canada.

LISTEN to the Podcast.

The Podcast is the complete interview with Bruce Cockburn on the release of his 38th album O Sun O Moon. And his thoughts on the music of and the loss of Gordon Lightfoot.


Bruce Cockburn – Poignant Infinity by Anil Prasad

2 May 2023 – Bruce Cockburn has consistently upended rock and pop expectations across his long, storied career. The Canadian singer-songwriter, guitarist, and composer has released 35 albums since embarking on his journey as a professional musician in 1967. His material is often infused with deep meaning, including informed and complex perspectives on humanitarian concerns, politics, war, and spirituality. And he combines those views with sophisticated, melodically-driven music that’s enabled it to resonate with people from all walks of life and generations. The numbers speak for themselves. He’s had 22 gold and platinum albums, in addition to 30 charting singles in Canada, the US, and Australia.

Cockburn’s songs aren’t driven by backseat observations of the world. His activist and spiritual leanings have been front and center in his life for decades. He’s a devoted Christian but doesn’t communicate about his path from an evangelical approach. Rather, he lets his actions and outcomes inform his output, focusing on how adhering to positive Biblical teachings have value to everyone, not just Christians.

He’s spent a great deal of time working with Amnesty International, Friends of the Earth, OXFAM, and The David Suzuki Foundation—just to name a few organizations—in their pursuit of critical relief efforts. Cockburn has also been outspoken on issues including climate change, famine, native rights, and third-world debt. In addition, he has spent time in Cambodia, Iraq, Mali, Nepal, Mozambique, Nicaragua, and Vietnam to contribute first-hand to solving the issues those regions face.

His incredible life story was captured in his detailed and evocative autobiography, Rumours of Glory in 2014. A nine-disc box set of the same name was also released that year, chronicling his musical evolution.

At age 77, Cockburn continues propelling forward with his new album O Sun O Moon, and a lengthy tour to support it. The recording is about this moment in time, for Cockburn himself, as well as humanity writ large and the many struggles it faces. It explores the intersections of political manipulation, how spirituality is abstracted from its intentions to drive greed and tribalism, and generational responsibility for stewardship of the planet. Perhaps most importantly, it offers an outlook on keeping one’s own psyche intact during these times.

Cockburn spoke to Innerviews from his home in San Francisco, where he moved in 2011. He reflected on the inspiration for key tracks from O Sun O Moon within contexts ranging from the personal and existential to the global and societal.

Bruce Cockburn 2023 - photo Keebler

To me, the new album is about priorities, focus, and spirit. What’s your take on the bigger picture it explores?

I think you’ve described it well. I suppose the focus comes from age more than anything else, but it’s also age in the time we’re living in. That latter aspect of it is normal for me. Pretty much all of my songs are responses to what I encounter. I mean, unless they’re fantasies. There are a couple of those in existence. But basically, my songs reflect the period of time in which they were being written and, in this case, that’s the COVID-19 and Trump era, with all this stuff that we’ve had flung at us.

You’ll hear me exploring myself as an older person in that context. There’s a lot of death on this record, but it’s not really specifically death itself. Rather, it’s the anticipation of the approach of that horizon and the kinds of feelings and thoughts that it engenders. The song “When You Arrive” is about that, but in my mind, it’s a kind of joyful song. Perhaps, darkly joyful or ironically joyful. I don’t see this as a dire thing, but it’s an important thing, worthy of attention.

The song “O Sun by Day O Moon by Night” also reflects a positive perspective on our inevitable departure. Tell me about the peaceful view it communicates.

Well, I think the negative perspective is everywhere. We entertain ourselves by watching thousands of departures over our lifetime on TV and elsewhere. But for me, it isn’t another step. I don’t really know what’s going to happen. My own belief is that I will be at least faced with an opportunity to get closer to God. What does closer to God mean? That’s pretty vague. I don’t believe in the Pearly Gates, although the dream in the song you just referred to kind of goes there. Rather, I see all that as symbolic and so I don’t really know what it’s going to be like.

At the very least, the energy that is contained in your body is going to go out to the universe and you do literally become part of everything. I mean we are now too, but we don’t know it because we feel like discrete creatures, but at the point of death, there’s a big change that happens.

So, either way, I think the manner of going is the part that scares us and the part that is too often tragic, and sometimes horribly inflicted on us. But the result of the departure I think can be approached with joy, or at least with kind of joyful anticipation. Not that I’m in a hurry or anything, but I think since it’s inevitable, death is as much a part of life as birth.

“On a Roll” captures a productive, yet realistic worldview at age 77. Talk about the drive and determination it illustrates about you at this moment.

The adventure continues. I don’t take any of it for granted. I do think that it’s going to hit the wall at some point. The hands are going to stop working or something else will happen, but for now, I’m able to keep doing this stuff and I think it might have partly to do with having a young daughter. So, I’m experiencing parenthood again in a deeper and more meaningful way than I did the first time around. She’s 11. I also have an older daughter who’s 46. So, I’m coming at it from a whole different perspective than when I was younger. It’s much more welcome and less fraught this time around, even though the world seems to have more to be fraught about as parents, now. Even though I don’t feel like a particularly young guy, I’m experiencing a lot of aspects of what it is to be a young adult in this culture.

I also get a lot of energy from the people who listen to the songs, and those who come to shows. I like playing for audiences and I like the travel and always have, so that hasn’t changed.

I feel like I’ve been led through the life that I’ve had and that continues, and I don’t really try to second guess it. I don’t take it for granted. It could stop anytime, but I don’t know, it’s a cliche to say, “I’m living in the moment,” but it has something to do with that.

And also, I feel like the journey isn’t over yet. I could see how you could get there. I think if I were by myself at this age and didn’t have a loving family to be in, that might be pretty depressing. Depression sucks up energy like nothing else. I think a lot of people do get depressed because the energy levels go down. They have for me too, but that’s offset by fresh things happening, so I guess it’s easier to deal with.

“Orders” explores how religion continues to be twisted to serve negative agendas, despite many of them stating we’re supposed to embrace one another, regardless of differences. What are your thoughts about how music can help transcend the socio-religious divides of the world?

I’m not confident that music can change anything, but it would be nice if it did of course. You can never carry that notion too far because you don’t know. I do hope that people will be encouraged by “Orders” and what it has to say. It’s one thing to sit there and say, “Oh yeah, we’re supposed to love thy neighbor,” but Christians have been failing to live up to that for 2,000 years. And there’s no reason to think we won’t keep on failing at that. But it doesn’t hurt to be reminded every now and then, that’s what we’re supposed to be doing.

Christians are under orders to do this, and we should be paying attention to that. And then you start thinking, “Well okay, well what does that mean? Who do I have to love?” And “everybody’s” too vague, so I just started giving examples in the song.

After decades of songwriting, what are your thoughts about making messages like that universal, without being didactic?

It’s a balancing act, because it’s easy to slip into preaching, and I’ve been accused of that at times. It’s always concerned me, and I feel like I’ve always had to make an effort not to go there. When you just say some things out loud, it sounds like you’re preaching just because of the nature of the material you’re spouting. People don’t always want to hear my opinion about things true or not. Of course, I think what I’m saying is true, but others might not agree. I do think you’re much more likely to be heard by people if they don’t think you’re preaching at them.

If you go to church or another religious institution, you expect to be preached at. You’ve volunteered for that, and it’s fine. But outside that context, it’s usually on an unwelcome thing. So, what I try to do is just share what I think and feel, and as long as people understand that that’s what it is, then they can take it or leave it. They don’t need to feel preached at. I’ve been blessed with an audience over all these years that’s willing to listen to this stuff and to varying degrees absorb it, and I’m totally grateful for that.

You emerged as a professional musician in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s, when activism and confronting difficult truths was more common. There’s a lot less of that these days. What’s your view on that shift?

You could also include the word “fashionable” in that. In the ’60s, a lot of people were sounding off because it was fashionable. When it stopped being fashionable, they stopped doing it. Not everyone and the real artists, in my view anyway. The ones who haven’t died have kept that up. They maybe had a different emphasis because times change, and we all change to some extent with them. At least our sense of how we fit in things tends to change.

The media, and radio—which is almost weird to talk about anymore—has relatively little importance in any area, except for the obvious pop stuff. I listen to rock stations when I’m driving my daughter to school because that’s the music that she likes to listen to. There’s some good stuff in there. Some of it’s not very good, and none of it really addresses much of what I think is worth addressing.

But then I think when I was a teenager, and even before that. I wanted to listen to Elvis Presley and Buddy Holly, and they weren’t talking about anything very important either. It was a little grittier, at least with Elvis’ songs, because he covered so many great blues artists, or at least drew so much from that world.

Pop music’s always with us. ABBA’s had a resurgence. Who could have imagined that? Back in the ’70s, that was kind of a pet hate of mine. Not ABBA specifically, but that part of the music world they represented. I had no use for it at all. They were making effective pop records that were really successful and that’s fine. Taylor Swift is also doing that, but I think she’s a better songwriter than the people in ABBA. I hope as she matures, that maturity will apply to her songwriting, because I think she’s good at it.

There are many capable songwriters that perhaps aren’t living up to what I imagined their capacity to be. But that’s my imagination talking. Really, I don’t know. Once in a while it seems like there’s been a window in which radio has accepted other kinds of music other than very produced, commercially-directed kind of stuff. And then the window closes after a while when the radio station changes hands and the new owners want more money, or when somebody discovers that they can make more money doing something else.

I’ve been lucky that I’ve been around for a couple of those windows to open and close again. Each time one opens, the audience gets a little bigger and, in my case, it seems like most of the people that have been drawn into my thing have stuck with me.

“To Keep the World We Know” addresses climate change and the idea of looking beyond ourselves. Explore its origins.

The actual song came about because Susan Aglukark called up and wanted to write a song together, and I thought it seemed like a good idea. We had a good time working together on it. The title was mine, but the idea of the world being in flames was hers. We’re seeing all this drought and wildfires all around the world, and it just seemed like something worth writing about.

You think about the future differently when you’re the parent of a young child. I think it’s because there’s an emotional investment in the future that you can’t ignore. With my daughter, the topic comes up tangentially from time to time. There’s no particular agenda. It’s about just paying attention to what’s going on. We talk about it a lot in terms of what she encounters, more than what I encounter. I have a perspective that is different. I’m considerably older than my wife as you can imagine, and so her perspective and mine are also different from each other, but I think mutually complementary.

So, I hope that what we can offer to our daughter is to be useful and that each of our excesses can be tempered by the other. Hopefully, we come up with some sort of reasonable advice and a reasonable context for our daughter to grow up in.

O Sun O Moon has an instrumental titled “Haiku,” and you’ve done two all-instrumental albums in recent times with Speechless and Crowing Ignites. How do instrumentals communicate in a unique way for you?

I think if you have lyrics, you hope if a person’s paying attention to those lyrics, they’ll be drawn into whatever it is they’re about. When you listen to music that does not have lyrics, that doesn’t happen and you’re free to feel whatever the music brings out in you.

I’ve always felt like there was a sense of space that went with instrumental music that doesn’t typically happen with songs with lyrics. If I listen to Bob Dylan, I’m thinking about what he’s saying, as well as savoring the music and whoever’s playing on the record. But if I listen to Japanese flute music or Bach, I’m not doing that. Rather, I’m allowing myself to be transported to wherever that music takes me. For me, that’s often a kind of deliciously-wistful poignant infinity. There’s a sense of that physical space almost. It’s imaginary, but it feels physically combined with time stopping. If you’re seriously listening to something, time stops. Those are the powerful effects I really notice with almost any kind of instrumental music.

Tell me about the choice of musicians on the album and the approach you took when recording them.

I really had a great time listening to what everybody brought to it, and I could do that partly because of the way we recorded. We first started with just me and Gary Craig playing drums and percussion, and once we had that down, we brought everybody in to add to it. So, it was fun to get the songs initially recorded, but the great thing about that was I had the luxury then of sitting back and not worrying about my own performance while listening to what everybody else brought in.

Colin Linden, who produced the album, had a great part to play in the choice of musicians, but we talked about it a bunch beforehand as we’ve done with previous albums. The core band included Victor Krauss on bass and Gary on drums on most of the tracks. Colin came up with Jim Hoke on marimba, clarinet, and sax, and Jeff Taylor on accordion and dolceola.

Jim brought so much to the recording in terms of horn arrangements and marimba playing. It was my idea to have marimba. I’ve always been a fan of Martin Denny and it seemed like some of these songs would suit that kind of sound, and it worked out.

We also have Sarah Jarosz on mandolin, Jenny Scheinman on violin, and Allison Russell, Shawn Colvin, and Buddy Miller on harmonies. I think this was the first time I’ve worked with Buddy, though I’ve met him many times. So, it was great to get him on the album.

It was really cool and a lot of fun to build the album up the way we did it. I kept getting pleasantly surprised by the results.

This wasn’t the first time I’ve worked this way. The albums I did with T-Bone Burnett, including Nothing but A Burning Light and Dart to the Heart, started in a similar way. For Nothing but A Burning Light, many of the songs were done with just me and a programmed, electronic drum track initially. Then we’d replace the fake drums with the real ones. It’s an easier way to get things done.

With Bone on Bone from 2017, we recorded that all live with the band, in the exact opposite way. We put the band together, got everybody in the studio, and just played, with some overdubs.

Either approach can work. If you’re dealing with a lower budget, the approach we took for the new album is good, because you don’t have to pay for people to wait around while you figure out what you’re doing.

We did have a decent budget for this album. But it felt like the approach we took was a better way to spend the money, and it works just as well, creatively. It’s different, though. You don’t get the same sort of spontaneous interplay that you might if you were actually playing live. The lucky accidents are less likely to happen, but on the other hand, you have more control over what happens, too.

Provide some insight into your creative process.

I still just love the guitar. So, sometimes when I’m playing, an idea will come that wants to be an instrumental piece. A riff or ideas that come one after the other can become the bones of an actual composition, and then I’ll chase that down and come up with something else for it. So, over the years, there have been quite a few occasions like that.

Writing instrumentals is different from writing songs where it’s all about lyrics. I like the sense that instrumental music offers something open to the listener’s interpretation. And playing the piece offers something similar to the performer, without being pinned down to specific lyrical ideas. It feels freer in a way. It’s nice to have instrumental things to do.

Of course, I like writing songs, too. When I write a song, I tend to structure things more formally and I tend to write the guitar parts into the song as a composition. So, I kind of play the same way through it, allowing for the occasional solo in the middle of the song. With the instrumental pieces, I still play them the same way, probably, but there’s more of a feeling that this could go anywhere, especially when you get to play it with other people. You just think, “Yeah, we’re jamming now. This is good.”

What are some of the key challenges you face in your creative process these days, and how do you transcend them?

The challenges are mostly physical. I’ve got arthritic fingers and sore feet, and whatever stuff that goes with being older. Eventually, those things might become impossible to get past. They are obstacles, in a way. Some of the older songs that are very simple I can’t play anymore because my fingers just won’t make the shapes I need to make. But that’s minimal. I foresee there will be a point where the songs I can’t play start outnumbering the other ones, and then it’s probably time to retire, but we’re not there yet.

The only other thing that I might put in that challenge category is having to come up with new stuff all the time. Having to do so is a choice, of course, but I don’t want to keep writing the same song. The more I write, the less room there is to come up with new stuff it seems. As much as we can add onto ourselves or subtract from that, as the case may be over time, you’re still essentially the same person you were when you started out, and you feel the same way about a lot of things and have the same vision. So, how do I say whatever it is I want to say without repeating myself excessively? Some repetition is going to show up. So, that comes into it in the writing of a song. Sometimes, I’ll catch myself at it. I’ll write a line, I think “Yeah, that’s cool,” and then be like, “Wait a minute, I said that 20 years ago.” And so, the question becomes, “Okay, well how can I say that in a fresher way?” I’m always still just figuring out how to write a good song.

When you perform solo, you occupy your own unique universe, surrounded by an expanse of instruments and technology. Describe your setup.

Solo concerts are mostly what are coming up this year. I have multiple guitars, because there are multiple tunings. I don’t want to inflict retuning over and over on the audience. I like being able to pick up ready-to-go guitars and just play. I also like the diversity of sounds. There’s the 12-string and dobro, which bring different sounds to the shows. They offer sonic relief from hearing the same kind of guitar sound throughout the night.

It’s a comfortable setup. I have cables, and little bits and pieces of stuff on a table near me, so I don’t have to hunt for things in my pockets or kick the water bottle over to get to them. I’ve also got a little collection of effects pedals to add variety to the mix.

With the acoustic solo shows, it’s about keeping the sound of one guy’s voice and guitar from being too monotonous over the course of the evening. The outcome is also a product of what happens between me and the audience, too, not just the physical stuff on the stage. It’s as much about what the audience gives back, and what I’m able to give back to them as a result.

I use in-ear monitors, because they’re better for my ears, and much more controllable for whoever’s mixing the house sound. They let me hear what the audience is hearing. I need to have that perspective, to have a sense of what I’m throwing at people.

Do solo concerts offer a greater level of freedom compared to ensemble shows?

In theory, they do offer a little more of that. I tend to do things the same every night once I settle on a set that works for me. The shows tend to be the same night after night, with minor exceptions. But theoretically, that freedom exists, if I were not as inclined to want to stick to a pattern. But that’s my nature. I’m just more comfortable when I’m not fretting over whether I’m going to make bad choices as far as the order of the songs go, or just forget what I know.

For the first decade I played solo, I was more spontaneous. I had a list of all my songs on top of my guitar, and I would just look down at that list and think, “Okay, well this one has the capo here and it’s in this key and it’s up-tempo, and I just did a couple of slow ones, so I guess I’ll do this one now.” But that was very stressful sometimes, because sometimes you just look at the list and go “What do I do now?” So, I like it better when I’ve got some sense of flow. I can change it if I want, but when there’s a planned show, my current approach works better for me. It’s also better for the lighting person. I can tell them what to expect and set up cues accordingly. It’s helpful to have things organized like that when I have a band, as well.

This is just my way of doing things. I tend to have a greater need to have the set structured. I can easily imagine being in a band where you didn’t do that. I’ve seen Colin Linden play with his bands where he’ll just turn around and yell out a song title and then they’ll play it. But these days, I feel it’s more practical to have a set list.

You’ve witnessed myriad technological transitions in the music industry across your career. What’s your perspective on its current ability to effectively compensate musicians, and the directions it appears to be heading in?

“Effectively compensate” are the key words. It’s one of the basic ingredients of human existence, and it’s certainly true in the music world. Lately, it’s an issue because of streaming and the fact that it doesn’t really pay royalties. That’s a concern and it has made life harder for musicians. In a sort of good way, it’s put the emphasis on live performances, which is okay because I think that’s when the music is at its most real. But yeah, it would be nice if the various powers that are working on these things could successfully persuade the streamers to pay up.

The music scene has changed totally and it’s still in flux. I don’t think it has settled anywhere yet. All of a sudden, we’re getting AI imitations of famous people. There was an actual virtual pop star in Japan a few years ago. This stuff has been written about in sci-fi books before, but it’s actually happening, and there’s going to be more of that.

Who actually needs humans when you can create a holographic image of somebody that just sounds really great singing and doing whatever? But it won’t replace us in the short term, at least. As I heard myself saying that, I was thinking of the old music union guys in Ottawa that were very upset when people started using synthesizers. They felt they would take jobs away from musicians, but it hasn’t really worked like that. AI probably won’t either, but things are changing all the time. I’m not interested enough in the electronic side of things to want to explore that.

It’s not that you can’t make good music with machinery. You can, but it’s not the same as when people do it. With AI, its function may change too. All of society is moving in the direction of standardizing, unifying, and homogenizing everything. But of course, in our movement in that direction, we’re also dealing with elements of chaos, such as mass shootings, war, and pandemics that work in the opposite direction. Politicians use the fragmentation for their own gain. It’s hard to say if music’s going to reflect all of that and where it’s going to go. I have no idea. I won’t be around to see it.

I mean things never stop. They’re constantly in motion and they’re never going to land anywhere, as long as we’re people with some capacity for imagination. Things are going to keep moving forward and changing. What I do know is things are hard now for musicians. I wish it was easier for musicians to make a living playing music, especially young ones getting started.

Those of us who’ve been around for long enough to have an audience are not in as difficult a situation, but if I were starting out now, how would I get heard? Where would I go? I could put stuff out online and maybe I’ll get lucky, and somebody will notice it. But millions of other things are coming out at the same time. You can find good stuff online, but there’s a lot of amateur attempts that you have to weed through to get to the good stuff, unless where you know what you’re looking for.

Do you plan for the long term with your career or is it more of a case of going with the flow?

The songs on the new album have been in progress for the last couple of years, and it’s just about to come out. So, it’s going to be the focus for the short term. It’s not new for me to be in this position because I don’t really plan ahead with respect to songwriting at all. Once in a while, I have the feeling that I want to go in a particular direction, but that is usually really just about a particular song. Should it be focused on electric guitar or acoustic guitar? What kind of music do these words want? But in terms of the big picture, I’m not much of a planner. Right now, we’ve got gigs booked across the next 12 months, and that’s about as far ahead as I’m taking it. We’ll see what happens creatively between now and then. The field is wide open.

~from www.innerviews.org – Anil Prasad


Two Interviews – Give a listen

A Little More Conversation with Ben O’Hara-Byrne
Bruce Cockburn on music & memories

20 January 2023 – Listen to the conversation!
[Bruce is about 26 minutes in)

and

Saskatchewan Weekend with Shauna Powers – CBC
Bruce Cockburn reflects on over 50 years in music

29 January 2023 – Many of us have loved the music of Bruce Cockburn for decades, and his earlier tunes still stand the test of time. They’re sometimes angry, like If I Had a Rocket Launcher, sometimes intimate, like Wondering Where the Lions Are. And they’re almost always poetic. Cockburn had to delay his 50th anniversary tour because of the pandemic, but he’s on the road now and that brings him to Saskatoon on February 9th. Host Shauna Powers speaks to Bruce about the path that brought him to this moment.

Give a listen to this fantastic interview!


FOR BRUCE COCKBURN, THE JOB IS TO TELL THE TRUTH OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE

COUNSEL OF ELDERS – BY LYNNE MARGOLIS

13 January 2023 – Fifty-five years into a career that has earned him superstar status in Canada, singer-songwriter Bruce Cockburn is in a reflective mood. In November, he released Rarities, a digital collection of songs previously available only in his very limited-edition Rumours of Glory box set, plus four tracks plucked from tribute compilations and remastered, one very early demo (“Bird Without Wings,” from 1966) and a track heard only on the Japanese version of Life Short Call Now (“ Twilight On the Champlain Sea,” featuring Ani DiFranco). He also reissued audiophile-quality editions of his self-titled 1970 debut album, 1996’s Charity of Night and 1999’s Breakfast In New Orleans, Dinner In Timbuktu.

The San Francisco resident, 77, also became a U.S. citizen in November, a development he calls “quite exciting.” (His wife and 11-year-old daughter are American-born.) In January, he’s kicking off another tour, during which he’ll likely perform tracks from an album he just finished recording. He plans to release the still-untitled work sometime in 2023.

BGS: So what prompted the Rarities release now?

Cockburn: It just seemed like a good time. When my book [the 2014 memoir, Rumours of Glory] came out, we put together a 10-CD box set with all the songs discussed in the book. And there was one disc of rarities. This record is basically the same record, except there’s a couple of extra songs, and there were only 1,000 copies of that box made, so the idea was to get these obscure things — some go back to the ‘60s even, so that is historical stuff, and some live performances and some film music that was never released elsewhere — into wider circulation.

Bird Without Wings

On “Bird Without Wings,” I was struck by the self-doubt of some of the lyrics, which doesn’t surprise me in someone’s early work. I wonder if you would still write a song like that today?

That’s an interesting question. Probably not, not exactly that. I mean, I recognize the person. But my life has been through a lot of changes since then. Back then it was so personal, I hardly ever sang it in public. But a band called 3’s a Crowd recorded it. I didn’t particularly like their version; it was a little too processed for my tastes. That album was produced by Mama Cass and I’m assuming she applied the techniques that the Mamas & the Papas used to get their harmonies, and it might have suited them, but it didn’t really work with that band. In my view, anyway.

You bring up an interesting point regarding how you feel when somebody records your song. Some artists are like, how I feel about it is how big the checks are when they arrive.

Well, that’s a factor, too. It’s not a simple thing. They were more or less friends of mine, so it was a bit awkward. They may have felt that I was less their friend after they heard what I thought of their version, but I wouldn’t be as bothered now, either. When I wrote that song, I’d probably just turned 21. As well as being too personal to sing for people, it was so personal that any sort of departure from my concept of how the song should sound was really hard to deal with. That’s not the case now. I have opinions about different people’s versions of my stuff, but I’ve heard a lot more things happen to my songs since then. Some better, some worse. I’d be more charitable now.

When Folk Alliance International gave you its inaugural People’s Voice Award — created to recognize “an individual who unabashedly embraces social and political commentary in their creative work and public career” — in 2017, you noted it was the first honor you received in the United States. It seems like acknowledgement in this country has been uneven for you.

Yeah. There’s an audience that allows me to tour. But I mean, we had significant radio play in the ‘80s (with) “Wondering Where the Lions Are” and “If I Had a Rocket Launcher” and other songs; as long as it was triple-A radio, my records got played. To the extent that there are some of those stations left, and sometimes on certain shows on public radio, I’ll show up. But it’s certainly not what it once was. I think that it’s partly being not from here. If I were in the pop world, that wouldn’t be an issue because it’s all global. But in the more esoteric area that I operate in, that’s made a difference. The profile in Canada is a lot higher.

But every now and then. … We’re in the process of making a new album, which we recorded at (producer) Colin Linden’s studio in Nashville. I had shipped a bunch of gear there and went to the depot to pick it up. There’s a young woman doing the paperwork, and the supervisor comes by and he looks at the name on that paperwork and he looks at me and he goes, “You’re Bruce Cockburn?” So he turns to all these people in the office, and he’s going, “You gotta hear this guy! He’s one of the greatest musicians in the world!” It was a lovely feeling to hear somebody getting so enthusiastic about it. For me, in this country, that’s quite rare.

Does that ever get old?

Are you kidding? I mean, if people are importuning you because they want something, that gets old fast. But the fact that people are appreciating what they know of what I do? That’s a wonderful thing.

Here’s a quote from the story I wrote about your Folk Alliance award. “When he became known as a political writer, as opposed to previous tags of Christian writer or ‘the John Denver of Canada,’ [Cockburn] said, ‘I had not thought much about the effect of the political aspect of my songwriting; I’d always felt, and I still do, that the job is to tell the truth of the human experience as we live it. I’ve never been interested in protest for its own sake, or in ideological polemicizing. Just fucking tell it like you see it and feel it. If you don’t see it and feel it, write about something else. Songs need to come from the heart or they don’t count for much.’”

It seems like it should go without saying, but it apparently doesn’t.

As somebody who has written political songs, do you feel like those songs still have an impact, or can still have an impact?

Well, they do, in a limited way — assuming that it’s a good song to begin with; that it has something about it that people are going to be tweaked by. It really depends on the fertility of the field on which it falls. If there’s a body of public sentiment around an issue, and a song touches on that, and speaks to that, it will have an effect on people. It’ll help maybe reinforce their feelings and their willingness to get involved, or it may provide a kind of rallying point. But without that, it has no power. It’s really about the people more than the song. But there’s no question that a song like “We Shall Overcome” became an anthem that moved a lot of people who maybe wouldn’t have been so moved were they not invited to sing along with a song like that.

In this era, it’s harder to imagine something like that happening, and I think we’re worse off for it. But what’s your impression as the person on stage or in the studio, or in the room with the pen and paper?

I don’t know. You quoted me there and I kind of stand by that. I think it’s always worth doing. If you see yourself as an artist in the broadest sense, or maybe in the classical sense, let’s say, someone who practices an art as opposed to somebody who gets on TV — not that you can’t be both — but if you see yourself that way, it’s just the job. Sing about what you’re moved by, what you see around you and feel around you and feel coming at you.

For me, the elements of that change with passage of time. But I’m still pretty much the person that I started out being, at the core. I’ve always been playing to a minority audience because of that, and I think that’s what anybody who’s trying to do something real should expect. Once in a while, somebody doing something real cracks through, or there’s a window that opens in terms of the public and the media’s willingness to expose stuff that doesn’t conform to the norm. But those windows are usually not open for long.

Let’s talk about the new album. Anything you want to tell me about the songs you’re writing today?

There’s a lot of spiritual content — not explicitly Christian, although I consider myself a Christian. But I think the impulse to experience something on the spiritual level is universal, and more power to anybody that can go there. That’s partly a reflection of age, too; these are concerns that are larger than some other ones at this point in my life. But there are songs that have topical content; there’s a song called “To Keep the World We Know,” about global warming, that I’ve co-written with an Inuit artist, Susan Aglukark, a Juno Award-winning Canadian. But mostly, they’re personal, which is typical of me.

What about the three rereleases? Why those?

It was the 50th anniversary of True North. It was my 50th anniversary as a recording artist and my first album was the first album on True North Records. So they put out a commemorative thing. This is a better-sounding pressing. And then to go along with that, those two albums from the ‘90s are ones that I particularly like as an example of what I do. Those albums have never been on vinyl. That was the exciting part; there’s something really nice about vinyl. Not just the sound but the tactile thing, the big-format cover and all that.

There’s a couple of songs that are obscure; “Grinning Moon” would have fit on those ‘90s albums. I’m not really sure why it wasn’t included, but I think it’s a pretty good song. There’s another called “Come Down Healing” that includes verses that were recycled into other songs on Charity of Night. There was something about the song that didn’t work for me at the time, but when I listen to it now, it’s pretty good. I like the idea of these being out there and not being completely lost.

That gorgeous guitar intro on “Grinning Moon” really grabbed me. And on “Come Down Healing,” the imagery, the guitar work and the urgency — and I love the lyrics: “Sometimes darkness is your friend”; “On the seven cooling towers of the cancer apocalypse/on the 7 billion dreaming souls.” And to think that you’ve had that song around for this long and it still feels current and important.

This shit doesn’t go away.

That’s why we need people like you, to make sure we know.

Credit: thebluegrasssituation.com


Bruce Cockburn chats with Terry David Mulligan at CKUA Radio Network about his latest ‘Rarities’ album release

10 December 2022 – Two Words. Bruce Cockburn.

Having sold more than nine million albums worldwide, acclaimed songwriter, performer, author, and activist Bruce Cockburn is a member of both the Canadian Songwriter and Canadian Music Hall of Fame, a winner of Folk Alliance’s People’s Voice Award, as well 13 JUNO Awards.

Bruce Cockburn has written almost 400 songs. Released 34 albums over a 50 year span. Who better to gather up his rarities and present them as partners with his hits? The man has rarities.
For more album info go here, Rarities.

Ep 235 | Rarities – Bruce Cockburn. A life in Music

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Ep 235 | Rarities – Bruce Cockburn. A life in Music
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